Paul Thurrott, and why he is classed as an idiot.
My comments on the mental prowess of Paul Thurott were called into question by a friend of mine. Here is a quick dissemination of his recent MSN Search technology. I picked this, because the fact that the competition (google desktop) is superior in pretty much every way is aparent from the beginning.
(http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/msn_search.asp)
"First launched as a public beta in November 2004, MSN Search was long in coming. Rumors of Microsoft's Web search challenge to market leader Google have been brewing for years now. But unlike previous versions of the search tool on MSN's Web site, the new MSN Search was built from the ground up, using new search algorithms, a new Web crawler, and a new indexing engine that the company hopes will set it apart from the competition. Naturally, MSN Search has a long hill to climb: Google, enshrined as one of the IT world's most recognizable brands, isn't going to go down without a fight."
I would like to note that this is the third major revision of msn search technology, and none of them have even been considered by us geeks.
"I spoke about MSN Search (Figure) recently with Larry Grothaus, the Lead Product Manager for MSN Marketing. Grothaus discussed what MSN's plans were for MSN Search, and how the service would likely change over time. Indeed, even since the public beta began last fall, some features have already evolved. "The UI has changed since the beta," Grothaus told me. "One of the things we've added is a drop down [Search] box to give people a little bit more of a vertical ability on their queries." The drop-down box appears as a part of a green button marked as "Search" by default; when you click the drop-down box, other options, such as Web, News, Images, Look up word, Encarta, Stock Quotes, Find Movies, Shopping, and Music appear (Figure)."
Much of this review centers around those things which apparently add value to msn search. I have tried it, and find them about as useful as those tabs along the edge of msn messenger. MSN search has a non extendable, none customizable list that point to microsoft services. Google desktop on the other hand has a fully configurable menu, allowing for you to plug ANYTHING into it (including the msn services). It also allows you to define hotkeys. I had it set up here at work so when I would type in a number and hit ctrl-B, i would get the local bus schedule for that route. When I typed the name of an item in world of warcraft and hit ctrl-T, I would get the thottbot database entry. Microsoft lets you search where they want you to, Google allows for where you want to. Of course, Paul doesnt mention this once through the entire review.
"Arguably, the most amazing feature in MSN Search is its ability to answer actual questions, thanks to integration with the voluminous Encarta back-end. Microsoft calls this feature "Encarta results," and you can access it directly by clicking the Encarta link above the search box. But you can also simply type in a question without directly accessing the Encarta link. The answers you get are surprisingly intelligent."
(please remember, anything msn search can do can also be done by plugging the url into the google deskbar.)
He goes on to list a multitude of questions, and their answers from encarta queries. From what I have seen, the only thing google cant really handle is something like this: "2y^3 + 4y -10 = 9", which is outside the purview of a search engine anyways. Adding the wikipedia to your deskbar should be one of the first things you do, and the wikipedia is widely acknowledged as the best encyclopedia out there. Encarta would probably be in the top ten or so. Once again, using a microsoft solution means that you are forced into the microsoft solution stack. Using the google solution allows you to use whatever you want to, including microsoft technology if thats what you wish.
Here is what Paul has to say about that:
"So what about Google? Frankly, the search leader offers nothing like this. For certain types of queries ("Who shot Abraham Lincoln?"), you can sometimes get a rough approximation by clicking "I'm feeling lucky" but there's no real answering of questions occurring there, of course."
See what I mean?
"Another unique MSN Search feature, Near Me, helps you find results by physical proximity to your current location. It's accessed via a prominent blue button on the MSN Search that's labeled "Near Me," of course. "We determine what's near you two different ways," Grothaus said. "If you go into Settings, you can set your location. [This can be a ZIP code or a plain English location like "Boston, Massachusetts."] If you don't set a location, MSN Search will try to do reverse IP lookup, which is pretty sophisticated. If you travel quite a bit, you can just leave that empty and it will always return relevant search results based on where you are geographically.""
Yes, it is quite unique. The "local" link at the top of google is nothing like this at..... wait a minute! Google has pretty much the same thing, just without the reverse ip lookup (which isnt all that reliable). Once again, Paul continues to hype the crap out of something the competition already has.
"Search builder is another interesting new feature, and if you've ever tried to fine-tune Google search results using that search engine's Byzantine syntax system, you'll understand why. When you click the Search Builder link on the MSN Search page, you're provided with a pop-up window (Figure) that helps you fine-tune a search using simple graphical tools. As you navigate down the choices--site/domains to include or exclude, countries and regions to include or exclude, languages, and so on--Search Builder populates the search box with the exact syntax needed to create the search you're attempting. For example, to restrict a search for Windows XP to Microsoft's Web site, you might type in Windows XP site:www.microsoft.com assuming you knew that was how it worked. But since you're a human being and shouldn't be bothered with that kind of miscellanea, you can use Search Builder instead."
Once again, Paul has yet to read up on advanced google usage. Google has all this and more, just not in a graphical popup. Once again, you wouldnt think so from what Paul says.
"Not surprisingly, MSN Search integrates with MSN Music (see my review), Microsoft's new Web-based online music service. So if you search MSN Search for an artist name, like Collective Soul, you'll see an area near the top of the search results that's called out with two orange chevrons, pointing to a link to the artist on MSN Music (Figure). To the right of that link, the top three downloaded songs for that group are highlighted. And when you click on the artist name or song name links, you're directly to MSN Music, where you can find out more information, purchase a CD, listen to song samples, or purchase songs or complete albums. If you click the "Sample" link next to one of the song titles, MSN Music loads the artist page and the selected song plays back."
Not suprisingly, microsoft doesnt integrate with any of the popular music services already available.
"Using the News item in the Search pull-down box, or the News link above the search box, you can search for news stories. So, for example, if you're interested in the recent election in Iraq, you might type in "Iraq elections." The results are a collection of stories from such places as the Washington Times, TIME Magazine, the Financial Times, and even the US Department of State (ahem)."
Which google has had forever now. I would also like to note that informal /. studies on msn search results show better filtering then google, but obvious attempts to artificially grow their number of indexed pages (for example, an msn image search will only show images from one of six free image hosting sites)
Paul of course, agrees with that statement while saying the exact opposit with
"So how does Google do? Google finds a whopping 74,100 Michael Jackson images, and like MSN Search, it does offer Large, Medium, and Small filtering. But you can't display only color or black and white images, and good luck finding what you want in a list of images that long. On the other hand, more is arguably "better" when it comes to search results, though "relevancy" trumps volume."
Of course, msn relevancy tends to be around that of the oldschool search engines like altavista, while googles relevancy is what put it as the most influencial brand name of last year.
"If you're using the MSN Toolbar Suite beta (see my preview), and I do recommend it over other desktop search products, it won't surprise you to realize that MSN Search integrates with that product as well. If you go to search.msn.com, type in a query and hit Search, MSN Search will display a search results page in Internet Explorer, as you might expect. But it will also duplicate that search up in the MSN toolbar in IE that was installed along with the rest of the suite. Using that toolbar, you can revisit past searches at any time (Figure), which can be handy."
I already mentioned how vastly superior the google deskbar is to the search bar.
"MSN Search is a work in progress, but it already includes a number of features that make it superior to Google. What I don't have a handle on yet is how MSN's search results stack up against those of Google, though I suspect we'll soon see some interesting discussions about that topic. Whether MSN's advantages will translate to more market share also remains to be seen: Google is still one of the world's most well-known brands, and is widely liked and used. And certainly, "google.com" is a lot easier to type than "search.msn.com," though one might argue that MSN's search tools are also directly available from msn.com, which is one of the shortest domain names around. And with its integration with MSN's many other products and services, MSN Search will surely get some traction."
Wow. Just wow. So, in his review of a search engine, the one thing he still doesnt know is how well it searches? His final conclusions center around the length of the domain name? He touts integration with msn services as better then interoperability with ANY web service?
There is two possiblities.
1) He is on the microsoft payroll, is officially part of the Microsoft marketing department, and is lieing to you the same way all marketing people lie.
2) He is an idiot who doesnt know what is available in the world, so he sings the praises of anything microsoft ever does.
that is, unless someone can offer a third possibility. His site is an aggregation of microsoft hype and propaganda from the last several years, and that can be seen by picking pretty much any article at random and reading it with a critical eye.
(http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/msn_search.asp)
"First launched as a public beta in November 2004, MSN Search was long in coming. Rumors of Microsoft's Web search challenge to market leader Google have been brewing for years now. But unlike previous versions of the search tool on MSN's Web site, the new MSN Search was built from the ground up, using new search algorithms, a new Web crawler, and a new indexing engine that the company hopes will set it apart from the competition. Naturally, MSN Search has a long hill to climb: Google, enshrined as one of the IT world's most recognizable brands, isn't going to go down without a fight."
I would like to note that this is the third major revision of msn search technology, and none of them have even been considered by us geeks.
"I spoke about MSN Search (Figure) recently with Larry Grothaus, the Lead Product Manager for MSN Marketing. Grothaus discussed what MSN's plans were for MSN Search, and how the service would likely change over time. Indeed, even since the public beta began last fall, some features have already evolved. "The UI has changed since the beta," Grothaus told me. "One of the things we've added is a drop down [Search] box to give people a little bit more of a vertical ability on their queries." The drop-down box appears as a part of a green button marked as "Search" by default; when you click the drop-down box, other options, such as Web, News, Images, Look up word, Encarta, Stock Quotes, Find Movies, Shopping, and Music appear (Figure)."
Much of this review centers around those things which apparently add value to msn search. I have tried it, and find them about as useful as those tabs along the edge of msn messenger. MSN search has a non extendable, none customizable list that point to microsoft services. Google desktop on the other hand has a fully configurable menu, allowing for you to plug ANYTHING into it (including the msn services). It also allows you to define hotkeys. I had it set up here at work so when I would type in a number and hit ctrl-B, i would get the local bus schedule for that route. When I typed the name of an item in world of warcraft and hit ctrl-T, I would get the thottbot database entry. Microsoft lets you search where they want you to, Google allows for where you want to. Of course, Paul doesnt mention this once through the entire review.
"Arguably, the most amazing feature in MSN Search is its ability to answer actual questions, thanks to integration with the voluminous Encarta back-end. Microsoft calls this feature "Encarta results," and you can access it directly by clicking the Encarta link above the search box. But you can also simply type in a question without directly accessing the Encarta link. The answers you get are surprisingly intelligent."
(please remember, anything msn search can do can also be done by plugging the url into the google deskbar.)
He goes on to list a multitude of questions, and their answers from encarta queries. From what I have seen, the only thing google cant really handle is something like this: "2y^3 + 4y -10 = 9", which is outside the purview of a search engine anyways. Adding the wikipedia to your deskbar should be one of the first things you do, and the wikipedia is widely acknowledged as the best encyclopedia out there. Encarta would probably be in the top ten or so. Once again, using a microsoft solution means that you are forced into the microsoft solution stack. Using the google solution allows you to use whatever you want to, including microsoft technology if thats what you wish.
Here is what Paul has to say about that:
"So what about Google? Frankly, the search leader offers nothing like this. For certain types of queries ("Who shot Abraham Lincoln?"), you can sometimes get a rough approximation by clicking "I'm feeling lucky" but there's no real answering of questions occurring there, of course."
See what I mean?
"Another unique MSN Search feature, Near Me, helps you find results by physical proximity to your current location. It's accessed via a prominent blue button on the MSN Search that's labeled "Near Me," of course. "We determine what's near you two different ways," Grothaus said. "If you go into Settings, you can set your location. [This can be a ZIP code or a plain English location like "Boston, Massachusetts."] If you don't set a location, MSN Search will try to do reverse IP lookup, which is pretty sophisticated. If you travel quite a bit, you can just leave that empty and it will always return relevant search results based on where you are geographically.""
Yes, it is quite unique. The "local" link at the top of google is nothing like this at..... wait a minute! Google has pretty much the same thing, just without the reverse ip lookup (which isnt all that reliable). Once again, Paul continues to hype the crap out of something the competition already has.
"Search builder is another interesting new feature, and if you've ever tried to fine-tune Google search results using that search engine's Byzantine syntax system, you'll understand why. When you click the Search Builder link on the MSN Search page, you're provided with a pop-up window (Figure) that helps you fine-tune a search using simple graphical tools. As you navigate down the choices--site/domains to include or exclude, countries and regions to include or exclude, languages, and so on--Search Builder populates the search box with the exact syntax needed to create the search you're attempting. For example, to restrict a search for Windows XP to Microsoft's Web site, you might type in Windows XP site:www.microsoft.com assuming you knew that was how it worked. But since you're a human being and shouldn't be bothered with that kind of miscellanea, you can use Search Builder instead."
Once again, Paul has yet to read up on advanced google usage. Google has all this and more, just not in a graphical popup. Once again, you wouldnt think so from what Paul says.
"Not surprisingly, MSN Search integrates with MSN Music (see my review), Microsoft's new Web-based online music service. So if you search MSN Search for an artist name, like Collective Soul, you'll see an area near the top of the search results that's called out with two orange chevrons, pointing to a link to the artist on MSN Music (Figure). To the right of that link, the top three downloaded songs for that group are highlighted. And when you click on the artist name or song name links, you're directly to MSN Music, where you can find out more information, purchase a CD, listen to song samples, or purchase songs or complete albums. If you click the "Sample" link next to one of the song titles, MSN Music loads the artist page and the selected song plays back."
Not suprisingly, microsoft doesnt integrate with any of the popular music services already available.
"Using the News item in the Search pull-down box, or the News link above the search box, you can search for news stories. So, for example, if you're interested in the recent election in Iraq, you might type in "Iraq elections." The results are a collection of stories from such places as the Washington Times, TIME Magazine, the Financial Times, and even the US Department of State (ahem)."
Which google has had forever now. I would also like to note that informal /. studies on msn search results show better filtering then google, but obvious attempts to artificially grow their number of indexed pages (for example, an msn image search will only show images from one of six free image hosting sites)
Paul of course, agrees with that statement while saying the exact opposit with
"So how does Google do? Google finds a whopping 74,100 Michael Jackson images, and like MSN Search, it does offer Large, Medium, and Small filtering. But you can't display only color or black and white images, and good luck finding what you want in a list of images that long. On the other hand, more is arguably "better" when it comes to search results, though "relevancy" trumps volume."
Of course, msn relevancy tends to be around that of the oldschool search engines like altavista, while googles relevancy is what put it as the most influencial brand name of last year.
"If you're using the MSN Toolbar Suite beta (see my preview), and I do recommend it over other desktop search products, it won't surprise you to realize that MSN Search integrates with that product as well. If you go to search.msn.com, type in a query and hit Search, MSN Search will display a search results page in Internet Explorer, as you might expect. But it will also duplicate that search up in the MSN toolbar in IE that was installed along with the rest of the suite. Using that toolbar, you can revisit past searches at any time (Figure), which can be handy."
I already mentioned how vastly superior the google deskbar is to the search bar.
"MSN Search is a work in progress, but it already includes a number of features that make it superior to Google. What I don't have a handle on yet is how MSN's search results stack up against those of Google, though I suspect we'll soon see some interesting discussions about that topic. Whether MSN's advantages will translate to more market share also remains to be seen: Google is still one of the world's most well-known brands, and is widely liked and used. And certainly, "google.com" is a lot easier to type than "search.msn.com," though one might argue that MSN's search tools are also directly available from msn.com, which is one of the shortest domain names around. And with its integration with MSN's many other products and services, MSN Search will surely get some traction."
Wow. Just wow. So, in his review of a search engine, the one thing he still doesnt know is how well it searches? His final conclusions center around the length of the domain name? He touts integration with msn services as better then interoperability with ANY web service?
There is two possiblities.
1) He is on the microsoft payroll, is officially part of the Microsoft marketing department, and is lieing to you the same way all marketing people lie.
2) He is an idiot who doesnt know what is available in the world, so he sings the praises of anything microsoft ever does.
that is, unless someone can offer a third possibility. His site is an aggregation of microsoft hype and propaganda from the last several years, and that can be seen by picking pretty much any article at random and reading it with a critical eye.
posted by Google Ninja at 1:32 PM
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